I don’t think I have enough room on my blog for both tai chi and poker, so unless the the mother of invention (Joanna) can come up with a game that incorparates both, I think it’s time that I revived my poker blog then we can get all the degenerates in one place!
Good luck to Nick in his new job and new home, hope everything goes well for you.
Tonights lesson was another good one, despite the fact that I was distracted throughout while Joanna explained to the higher grades different ways of smashing your elbow into people. I really like elbow strikes because they can do an immense amount of damage that they can do. They can also be a very painful blocking technique that can cause a serious ammount of damage to someone’s punching hand. I’m looking forward to elbows even though they may be some time away for me.
For my part in tonights class it was reviewing the last few techniques that we have learned over the last few week, and this is something that I really like to do. For me reviews are priceless and I always feel much more comfortable than when I’m learning a new technique.
Right I started this post ages ago but have been distracted bay various things, not least the comments on the last blog, so finally Edge if you are reading, read the comments on the last one and give us a shout!
Hey guys,
The old post had a long comment list, so I’ll respond here to continue the martial arts discussion. I’ve had a brief look through the tai chi site (http://www.martialtaichi.co.uk/) that you recommened. The videos section looked interesting, but this video
http://www.martialtaichi.co.uk/loadmovie.php?section=xingyi&vid=piquan_vs_kicks.mp4
seems a bit flawed to me.
Assuming the instructor is using perfect form (and if not, why didn’t she keep on retaking until the video was perfect?)…
Why does she drop her hands, lean forwards, and stick her chin out as she blocks the kick?
“Keep your guard up” is a cliche used by too many mindless idiots, so I’ll ignore the hand dropping and describe what I disagree with regarding other aspects…
Leaning forwards decreases her mobility. If her opponent were to counter her block she’d be off balance to react.
By jutting out her chin, it looks like she’s asking for a slap. That’s all well and good if you’re mocking your attacker, but a snappy withdrawal wouldn’t be easy from her forward leaning stance. Also, I do not believe that it was her intention to present a false target the attacker.
Anyway, I look forward to reading your views on this.
Regards,
The Edge.
Hi Edge,
First off and most importantly, I have to say that I’m not qualified to comment on the video, but I can see what you are saying. My personal thought is that it may just be a quality control problem and was probably missed when editing.
As a student I do think that I am qualified to say that in my tai chi class from our very first lesson we are taught strikes to the eyes and throat, we train to fight on the street only. Perfect video is all well and good, but on the street with adrenaline rushing around your body ( the way we train actually supresses this in order to allow us to stay calmer and think clearly, and to react quickly) how often will you see the perfect form?
I know it’s not much of an answer but like I said I’m not qualified, I havent been doing tai chi for that long and I’m still undoing old kickboxing habits that I picked up a life time ago and are still ingrained in me. Back in those days, I used to get into fights just about every weekend and perfect form or not there was rarely a time when I didn’t take a punch or two myself. There again my kick boxing training lacked any yielding qualities, all blocks/ deflections were taught as strikes, the emphasis was always on meeting force with force and to a degree I was being trained for sport as the owner of the school was a world champion kick boxer. Now I’m being taught (in my opinion) an effective street fighting technique that will allow me to end a fight quickly, much quicker than I ever could have hoped to in my previous life. Anyway I’m digressing from your question, so I’m going to leave it there, but I’m sure there will be someone much more qualified than me along soon to discuss it
Well – that’s a fairly standard Xingyiquan piquan technique. It’s not Tai Chi but I’ll explain what is going on there anyway.
As the first kick comes in towards my abdomen, I take the weight back on to my rear leg and do a hard double hand axe block down onto the opponent’s shin. This is known as a gather step – I am now plyometrically coiled on my rear leg. My chin doesn’t stick out – the spine bows to generate what is sometimes termed “vertical dantian rotation” which is the Chinese for spine undulation. I actually just keep my head level – keeping my eyes fixed on the opponent’s face. Regarding dropping the hands – this is often done in many styles I’ve learned. In Tai Chi it is called “returning to wu ji (void or neutral).” Wu ji actually means no extremity – in other words my hands are not committed to anything. If an attack comes in they can respond.
Tai Chi does a lot of fighting from a completely unready stance like this – you train to move second and arrive first. If you train like this, you get great reflexes and train for attacks that might come in out of the blue – when you are not expecting them. This is far more street-efficient than only training from a guard stance. Often if you are attacked, you will not know about it until the first punch has been thrown, so you will not have had time to get into a guard stance.
Also, we never just block with our hands – that is not fast enough – we get our whole selves out of the way – the hands are just insurance. I recently did a drill with another student of ours – one with a lot of kickboxing and boxing experience as well as Karate experience. Now he is fast – really fast. But not fast enough to deflect my whip punches until he performed a gather step deflection, similar to the one in the film. It has to start in the feet.
In Silat and Tai Chi too there is also the intention of sometimes deliberately leaving an opening. You then move second and arrive first – in other words, you wait until your opponent has committed themselves to their attack and then exploit their commitment to that movement. I’ve trained with a number of kickboxers and people from other styles and I’ve never met anyone fast enough to slip anything by me yet.
In the gathered position, I watch and wait to see what Julie wants to throw in next – she goes for a kick, so I intercept that with my front shin while drilling a punch up into her jaw. I then step through with a vertical axe splitting chop down her face.
The timing is broken up because it is an instructional video. It shows “what happens if they next do this?” slow enough for you to see what’s going on.
As the reviewer said:
“…Joanna Zorya’s demonstration of these significant Xing Yi actions exactly matches the essence of this style. She shows a movement. Then she shows its applications. Then, crucially she shows its application with the most important of the “IFs” added. What IF the punch is blocked? What IF the opponent changes angle? …Joanna Zorya’s explanations show these major concepts at the core of her demonstration: precise, correct and mutable.” - Shihfu Mancuso (Plum Publications)
A rule such as “never drop your guard” is just one point of view. There are others. The thing is, people have a certain way of thinking – they do a certain style and assume that style is best. Maybe later they pick another style or teacher because they get a feel for them and then shift their opinions and priorities. The bottom line is that anyone who hasn’t fought me is in no position to criticise. They cannot know whether their approach would be superior or not. This cuts both ways, which is why I don’t generally criticise other people’s clips.
I can show people what we do and explain why we do things that way. I have a significant amount of real fighting experience too – real stuff, not just blokes doing a bit of recreational post-pub punch-up bonding.
I’ve fought for my life with people who were trying to take it, and protected others who have been in similar danger. So I actually don’t take too kindly to this “everyone has a right to their opinion (no matter how ill informed) culture.”
Do you really think we would have selected that specific clip from an hour-long DVD, turned it into a Quicktime film, and posted on our previous website, then re-posted it on our new website, if it wasn’t a good and accurate example of Xingyi’s Piquan. That we would have let it slip through the editing net?
Phew, is it getting hot in here or is it just me? I’m not sure who Julies comment was aimed at, so presuming it was me, my answer would have to be no. I know how thourough you both are and would be suprised if anything had slipped by unnoticed.
As I said before I’m not qualified to comment on the video, so I’ll just retire to that far corner over there and watch from a distance
Whats all this got to do woth Poker?? tut tut, I am dissapointed in you guys and your “fancy dancing” !!!! looool
I needed a place to put my degenerate comments and I was lead to believe that this was the place!
BM
I’lll give you one Mik, either tomowwor or when I get back from my hols
“I’ll give you one Mik” WHOA!!!! Thats some scary stuff!!! Please be more creful in what you write, people will get the wrong ideas!!! ;o)
BM
hahaha take it to my poker blog Mik
http://www.beatme.wordpress.com
There are always correlations between many areas of life and poker, or between many areas of life and Tai Chi. Anyone who reads Joanna’s insightful comments on the Tai Chi move here and is not able to relate them to poker isn’t thinking hard enough about the poker or Tai Chi if you ask me.
“sometimes deliberately leaving an opening. You then move second and arrive first – in other words, you wait until your opponent has committed themselves to their attack and then exploit their commitment to that movement”
If that isnt a reference that could just as easily come from a poker book I’m a monkey’s uncle !
I for one think there’s interesting things to learn from both disciplines so I’ll be reading both your blogs in future.
P.S. Have an amazing holiday !
Thats a great post Tan, thanks for that. I also belive that one can be applied to the other…..all I have to do now is convice Joanna!
Ah – not everything that is possible is also ethical
Ok, we’d have to set up a whole new website to discuss ethics and I’d probably give up try to convince you quite rapidly.
Ahhhh, guys. The only thing in this life that is certain, is that nothing is certain.
Enjoy your hols!
“The only thing in this life that is certain, is that nothing is certain.”
Things might be certain, it just might be that you personally might not be able to predict what is going to happen. Retrospectively, everything could be said to have been pre-ordained.
Spid perhaps the only thing that is certain is life is that we will die.
Personally ive always liked that quote from someone i cant recall at this time:
” the only thing ive learnt from life is that it goes on”
We certainly live first!
Also – some would argue that nothing dies, it only changes.